S.2, Ep.6: 60 Seconds to Support - Tech Company Works to Close the Gap Between Troubled Students and the Help They Need

AD VO: 0:00

Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the Center for Educational Effectiveness - Better Data, Better Decisions, Better Schools. To find out more visit effectiveness.org.

Eric Price: 0:14

The kids are not alright. That's the report coming in from schools across America. Now imagine a school where every single student had access to the wellness support they need when they need it. That's exactly what we'll be imagining on this episode of Outliers in Education.

AD VO: 0:30

I think we really need to change how we look at what we do in schools, everything that we do as educators, it just comes back to people. I love it even when it's hard, especially when

Eric Price: 0:40

Thank you for joining us on another episode of it's hard. Ultimately, I mean, this is about what's best for Outliers in Education. I'm Eric price here is always with my kids. hard working big brained and kind hearted co host from the Center for educational effectiveness. Eric Bolz. Hey, Bolzie. Did I hear right that you're moonlighting, right now?

Erich Bolz: 1:04

I'm moonlighting. Right now I'm writing about it. It's a long story, but our producer told us to keep it short. So bottom line, supporting a former student and a principal role as a vice principal, unretired for 20 days just to help the school I started teaching at make it through their last little bit of the school year, really enjoying the experience. It's a lot more trying physically than I would have imagined,

Eric Price: 1:26

I imagine and have you seen some of your own wellness in that experience?

AD VO: 1:31

I feel like I should be losing more weight given the amount of steps I'm putting in. But I feel like this podcast is actually just perfectly timed given the really unfortunate escalating behaviors that we're seeing that I'm directly seen with students in the field.

Eric Price: 1:45

Yeah, I think that I think we are coming into this age and education, where wellness and mental well being is really rising to the top of the menu for educators and for administrators.

AD VO: 1:58

Coinciding with student need, right? I mean, we're seeing escalating student need post pandemic. So I think, again, this will be a timely episode for our folks who are kind enough to listen to us month after month.

Eric Price: 2:10

Yeah, and that's exactly what we're gonna be talking about today. And here to help us get right into that is an expert in addressing the challenges of providing wellness support to our student population. Maria Barrera, she is CEO of playful health. Maria, welcome to the show.

Maria Barrera: 2:26

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to get into it with you all.

Eric Price: 2:30

Well, this is a place where I know there's a ton of need, and I don't have a lot of information and knowledge. So could you kind of give us a little bit of a primer on what mental health and wellness is from your perspective?

Maria Barrera: 2:43

Yeah, you started with the kids or not all right. And that's, that's true. And wellness is not about being happy or Okay, all the time. Right? The way we think about it, it's really about resilience. It's about the ability to come back. It's about, hey, things happen in life, and it's okay, and things are gonna get hard. And that's okay, too. How do you get back to where you started? How do you move through those emotions? How do you identify named them and work through them? Without hopefully lashing out? I'm sure some of what Eric is seeing, and, and get to a place of sort of well being once again.

AD VO: 3:27

Maria, tell us kind of what led you down this path? How did you end up devoting your life to this work knowing that the little bit I know about you, this seems like your hard left?

Maria Barrera: 3:37

Yeah, I've taken what some may call a non traditional path to get here. So I, I've always been a problem solver. And I thought the problem I wanted to solve was that of self driving cars, so or flying cars. So I did my undergrad and Master's in mechanical engineering. And was that at Stanford at the time doing learning all about, you know, the biggest breakthroughs in technology and innovation. And I met the founder of Nearpod. There. And as I got to meet him and understand sort of the impact that technology was having in the classroom, it was this big aha moment when like, oh, like, you know, in Silicon Valley, we're all talking about these like life changing technologies that are going to literally change the world that we live in. And here we have technology getting into the classroom that's changing how students are learning and how teachers are interacting in their day to day. And it's something that at that time felt so simple, right? It's how to use iPads and Chromebooks in the classroom, and has truly, truly revolutionized education as a whole. And it was such a powerful moment to realize that bringing technology into education can have these huge effects. And huge impact in both student learning and educator happiness. So I joined that team, as they were just starting out, that was the Nearpod. Team. Yeah, the Nearpod team. And I got to be at the forefront of really, this technology wave in education. So as you can imagine, I learned a ton through that process, I most importantly, learned how to build a product that students really want to use and love to use, that teachers will make time for their classrooms. And that administrators can pay for and find value in and you know, all those things are now at the forefront of what we're doing. But I, you know, through the pandemic sort of saw the, the challenges that teachers were facing and that students were going through and how and how school was completely changed by COVID. And how that affected students at the core. So it was actually an article in The New York Times about the rising suicide rates and eight year olds, that ultimately was I guess, like the aha moment, I'm like, oh, I need to go work on this now. And I didn't know what it was going to look like. But I spent a lot of time talking to educators to parents, to kids, teachers, and learning and seeing, you know, where there was an opportunity to support and to work through this problem together. And that became what we're doing today.

Eric Price: 6:33

That's, that's crazy. And I think we're when I talk with leaders in the schools, and educators, I think one of their biggest I think behaviors a big issue, but I think, a kind of an adjacent or connected issue. Is this wellness, like mental wellness and well being. So and they're, they're saying, we just need more help. So tell us a little bit about playful? How does that fit in with with some of that need?

Maria Barrera: 7:01

Yeah, I mean, if you think about it behaviors and acting out, it's really just their unmet needs, right? Kids aren't just lashing out in classroom because they're bored. Right? It's because there's other stuff going on. So we've really think about clay fall in terms of the school system, and are working within the place where students are spending a majority of their time to provide support to every student when and when they need it.

Eric Price: 7:30

And a kid just can go on whenever they want to.

Maria Barrera: 7:34

Exactly, I mean, demand is so high. And you can imagine today, I mean, Eric, you've probably seen this in the last couple of weeks, as you've been in the in the school building, kids are coming in with all sorts of things that they want to talk about that are bothering them. And there's just not enough people hence why Eric is in this role to meet that demand. Because the demand has gotten so high. So we're really looking at, okay, how do we bring technology into the school building, meet kids where they're at, and shift even the access points for students to get support, right? Like, typically, you have to go through a really long referral form and make an appointment for next Tuesday at lunchtime. And it turns out that you need support, like right now. So how do we help the student get that support right now, so that they don't lash out on the classroom, and help them work through it so that they're developing a muscle of oh, here's like coping skills that I can use, here are some strategies that I might use to, you know, talk to my friend who said something mean about me. And that way, we were helping them as little things are snowballing so that they don't become big things on the road, thereby making it easier.

Eric Price: 8:44

Is it like an online material that they're going through them to help them with that?

Maria Barrera: 8:48

Yeah, so there's an application but they can either download on their phones or use on their schoolish device. So depending on the device policy, they can use either or, and they log on, they get connected to a coach within 60 seconds. So immediate support. So there's an actual coach on the other end. Yep. On the other hand, there's, there's someone there waiting to chat with them and talk about whatever's on their mind.

Eric Price: 9:12

Wow. Wow, that's amazing.

AD VO: 9:15

Well, and as I learned, as I started to learn about playful, I think we need lots of layers to put the onion back together. And to me just having access to something else really made a lot of sense. And then what I'm seeing directly in schools today, I cannot believe the amount of time I spend reacting. So I've got four days under my belt now. And I don't think I don't think I've had two hours to work on anything other than essentially responding to attendance, student issues. Oftentimes, the principal's working on an other issue, that counselor may be working on a third issue. The school is incredibly well organized in the context of response. They have really highly trained classified staff who are fabulous with students, but just having one more thing to say, hey, as you come in here, and you're, you know, you're somewhat regulated to be able to Have students access, you know, somebody else outside of the school in the moment, I think would be just a really incredibly helpful thing. So you know that that along with strategies that we see in our whole educator series, you know, more personnel, more trained personnel, I mean, all these things together could ultimately work in concert, I think to help us along. So switching gears a little bit. You've been around a little while, tell us how long and share a success story for you wonderful anecdote from a student or a family or a school where, while we've seen some pretty incredible things happen, I hope so many I know it's hard to peg, I'll share three.

Maria Barrera: 10:34

Great. So one thing that I want to emphasize is that a lot of students are not ready to talk to someone in person. So particularly, when they're experiencing high, you know, high social anxiety, it means like looking someone in the eye can be really scary. or depression, things that like we've been taught as a society to be ashamed of having another layer of support, where you don't have to look someone in the eye and you can just chat your feelings. You know, oftentimes kids come to us and say, like, this is the first time I've said this to anybody, but like I've been feeling this way. So I'll start with the most one of the most acute situations, because, you know, while we're aiming to support students, before they become big things, we also recognize that in today's world, there are a lot of big things that are happening and that our students are feeling. So a couple of weeks ago, a student came in that was really struggling with bullying and family related changes. And they expressed that they were thinking about suicide. And this isn't obviously why none of us got into education and wanting to support students, but it's a very real thing that's happening right now. And there, they actually talked to a friend about it, and they said, oh, you should try clay fall like clay vo could be helpful here, which I just love that that students are, you know, tell each other where to go. makes me so happy. So they came on, and they told the coach and we were sort of taught, you know, we do a risk assessment to try to understand, Okay, have you do have a plan? Do you have the means Do you have a timeline, and, and they said that they're, you know, they've been trying to communicate it to their family, how they were feeling. Their mom kind of knew how they were feeling, but may not know how bad it really is. And they just said like, what they needed the most in that moment. This was an 8pm on a Friday. What they needed was the counselor support. So right away, we get on a text, start with the counselor, the counselor calls the family, they the student gets to talk to the counselor, the counselors were talked to the mom and really sort of supported the mom in the process of like, how to support the student throughout the weekend and through, you know, these very dark feelings, and they were able to get the support that they needed.

Eric Price: 12:56

Wow. And that was after hours. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Where do you get your coaches? And what kind of training do they go through?

Maria Barrera: 13:04

Yeah, there's two big buckets. One, they're either former educators, a lot of former educators coming on, wanting to still have an impact in a student's lives. And we do they have to go through all our training, which is all CBT, DBT, AC T base, all research based,

Eric Price: 13:21

What are those, I'm not sure what those are.

Maria Barrera: 13:23

they're all different types of therapies specifically designed for that are the most effective, actually against depression and anxiety. And for this age range, in particular, as well as through a medium that is chopped based where like, we can't really see your body language, but we talk a lot about the impact of words and how you talk to yourself and, and sort of shifting the mindset. And, hey, I'm not good at this, too. I'm not good at this yet. But the little things that can that can make a really big difference. So have former educators and the rest are mental health professionals. So you could see, you know, licensed social workers, counselors, people who are getting their licensing hours. And we've actually heard, I've heard a couple of examples, people who have been going through the licensing process, and it can be so arduous to go through all these processes, that doing this work has really reinvigorated their desire to be in this space and sort of giving them that extra push to stay in the mental health profession. So that's a whole nother layer of the value that we're creating, creating incredible coach community that cares so deeply about supporting kits.

Eric Price: 14:33

Is it through zoom, or is it just audio or just through chat?

Maria Barrera: 14:37

So, it's text. They're essentially texting back and forth? Yeah.

Eric Price: 14:41

Okay. Wow. And I imagine that kind of that threshold of speaking to someone really is lowered that way. Just it isn't as intimidating right? Yeah.

Maria Barrera: 14:48

So, I'll share another story. That just happened last week. Actually, a student we just launched with a school because they are looking for summer support. So even though it's late in the school year that like you What we're going to do to get it out and have our students get the support over the summer. And this student had been thinking about this for six months, and had not had the courage to have a conversation with their family member. And they came in the first week that we launched came in, like three or four times a day to see like how fearful they were about this conversation and what what got all these strategies from my breathing exercises, to feel less anxious to little like sentence starters on how to have the difficult conversation to role playing. And they did it, they had the conversation.

Eric Price: 15:39

That is awesome.

Maria Barrera: 15:41

And then at the end, the family member was like, You didn't there was nothing to be afraid of like you didn't you didn't need to do that. You didn't need to go through these like very sort of dark thought patterns along the way. And it was just really powerful to see them one taking that risk and having the conversation then coming back after to tell us like it went well.

Eric Price: 16:02

Yeah, right. Yeah. But that must be huge, right for a kid to be talking about those kinds of Yeah, that's just giant.

Maria Barrera: 16:09

I mean, all because all these things, especially when you're in middle school, in high school, like all these things are big things.

Eric Price: 16:14

Thank you so much, Maria. We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be right back because there is so much here to talk about, stick around for more from outliers in education.

AD VO: 16:29

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Eric Price: 17:31

Welcome back, everybody. We're talking with the amazing Maria Barrera, CEO of playful health.

AD VO: 17:37

So I'm a principal, I'm listening this podcast and I'm sold. Yeah, I absolutely want one more layer of support. Talk us through what does the implementation look like when I commit to adding the solution at the school level,

Maria Barrera: 17:49

we so most of us are former educators on the team. So we are very, very aware of sort of the systems and the challenges of implementing and education have made it as easy as humanly possible to get this rolling out. With that in mind, we also want to make it really easy for the school, and the students to get that support right away without adding more friction. So for implementation, we actually have every student create an account using their school email. So we know who they are right? In case anything needs to be escalated. And we now have weekly lessons that teachers can do in like an advisory period, or in other sorts of Meantime, to that are responding to the student needs. So if students are talking a lot about bullying, then the next week, we'll have a lesson on bullying.

Eric Price: 18:38

So that's, that's just what we're sensing in the schools, you're talking about bullying. Okay. Right.

Maria Barrera: 18:43

Exactly. Exactly. And we, every week, we have a different lesson. So it's not like a preset scope and sequence, but rather, that's responding specifically to what students need. So it becomes a lot more effective. And students actually are using the strategies. So that's a big part of a successful implementation. Because one, you're reminding kids on a weekly basis that like, oh, by the way, remember, this thing is here for you to we're teaching them we're using the same strategies and those lessons that we do in coaching. So you start seeing the same things over and over again, start to exercise those muscles, and three, the people are sharing them with each other. So then students mean teachers also are doing the lessons and you know, we're like Trojan horsing these two teachers, they're sharing it their families. So it becomes like a whole community system now all working on these things together. But again, trying to make it like the lessons are all self paced students off base with the teachers are not shipped teach anything, which is big value prop for you at a time when educators are really overwhelmed.

Eric Price: 19:44

Some real estate that I'm an administrator and I think ballsy, just set the table of how busy we are and how many things that you know admin have to do as well as teachers. But there's so much here, where would you suggest that we start on As educators with trying to get things better in this world,

Maria Barrera: 20:04

I mean, aside from talking to us, which we're gearing up for, for the fall and kicking up a bunch of new schools, look, you all talk a lot about the importance of student relationships and how one student can make one relationship can make all the difference. And we see that day in and day out. And like, what's interesting with us is like, it's not even one relationship, it's like one conversation can make a difference. So I know you're all super busy. I know there's a ton going on. And know that the conversations that you have, and the relationships that you build, likely have a bigger impact that you even realize

Eric Price: 20:45

Just when you see a kid and you have that conversation.

Maria Barrera: 20:48

Mm hmm. Yeah. That can make their day. Yeah. So just continue doing that work. Because that's, that's where the magic happens. So as

AD VO: 20:56

He made a hard left moved into this arena of supporting students, clarion call being tragic article and suicide rates, escalating eight year olds, what would need to change at the policy level across our country to really make a big inroads in terms of supporting student mental health?

Maria Barrera: 21:16

Yeah, they've know that this is a big priority for the administration right now. And I mean, look, SEL has had a unfortunate negative sort of connotation attached to it recently, I think there's a lot of loss of trust and transparency between sort of families and educators. And or just like the education system that is sort of getting in the way of providing the best mental health support for students. And different states are definitely putting funding to play into play for school based mental health support, in particular. So I think that's a huge avenue. And I think the more that we can have increased transparency and ground ourselves in the goal that we're trying to accomplish, I we're really all here to support kids. And if that's what we're here for, then let's ground ourselves in that reality, and define sort of the processes and the tools and programs that best support that end goal. But let's stop coming to the table with different agendas that are not serving kids. I think, like, that's where some of the biggest challenges that you know, talking to superintendents face and board meetings, and the more that we can continue to go back to, okay, let's bring it back to the kids. I think the better that will be or the faster we'll be able to move forward and really meet them where they're at and give them their support. Like, just listen to that. We talk about that too, right? Like student voice if you if you if you ask kids what they need, they will tell you.

Eric Price: 22:52

Yeah, student voice is coming back again. So this is just a personal question. But why do you think there is such an uptick in this negative mental wellness with our students?

Unknown: 23:04

There's a combination of a lot of things, definitely the pandemic and the lack of sort of social interactions. And honestly, like fear that going through our pandemic, and having a community like that was that was real, right. So that has a huge effect, of course, like, impact of climate change, where there's a lot of like societal things. We talk a lot about social media, and the impact that social media has both on our ability to say things we may not necessarily say in person, and then how that permeates itself its way into our day to day life. Right? Whether it because you know, just because someone doesn't say to your faces, I mean, it hurts any less. But social media allows us to like have a shield of well, I can say mean things and like, it's not as hard, right? So I think that's a big part of it. And honestly, there's, you know, different social media platforms that have really made it easier for students to get access to, frankly, like damaging information, whether it's like the Tick Tock therapy or the like, how to eat 100 calories a day without passing out like it's real stuff, and it's scary. So the kind of we create more robust digital citizenship courses that like were to teach kids how to navigate that online world in a way that is not harmful to them.

Eric Price: 24:33

What if I said, loneliness? And how does that play into your thinking in some way? How would you respond?

Unknown: 24:41

Yeah, I think about that a lot with like, social anxiety too. So both both of those five together because when you're not used to interacting with people on a day to day basis, it becomes you become even less likely to interact with them because it's scary, right? We've replaced sort of human interaction with, let's say, like media interaction. And they're not the same. Right? And frankly, that's one of the things like AI. I'm like, you know, I see some of what people are posting on SNAP AI. And like, oh, look, it's my new best friend. Like, that's not a real person. All right, and and what is it going to be when you get upset with your best friend for not answering you in 30 seconds? Because you're expecting them to be almost like a bot to? So how do we continue to like foster human deep relationships so that we don't end up in a place where, you know, we're lonely and experiencing social anxiety with any new relationship that we want to build?

Eric Price: 25:45

It almost seems like we don't know. Or we're not training our kids how to to relate to to fill those needs, those relational needs. And we're continuing to have a greater will it just as a lack, just like you said, with a similar? Yeah, wow. That's, that's really crazy.

Maria Barrera: 26:02

I mean, I'll even share that one of the our most active time during the day is lunchtime, when kids are looking for connection. And then one of the big questions we get like, how do I make friends and how do I talk to someone new? So kids want to do it is just they may not know how,

Erich Bolz: 26:22

So, Maria, I can see implementing this tomorrow at the elementary school or I'm working at what grade levels? Do you have success? Is this something that a kindergartener can can jump on and access and access benefit from?

Unknown: 26:34

Typically we work on upper elementary through high school because they have to be able to read and type. So being kindergarteners have great reading and writing skills. Yes, but But the earliest we've gone so far as fourth graders.

Eric Price: 26:49

Maria, this is a ton here. And I know that again, administrators and educators, they would say this is just such a huge need. And I love the way that you are attacking this in anytime, anywhere. And and I think it is, this is only going to become I think, exponentially a greater need for our kids and honestly for our adults as well in the system. So this is fantastic. This is the time and the show Maria, where we move to our wizard of wrap up so ballsy. What do you have for us in wrapping up today's thoughts?

Erich Bolz: 27:24

I shouldn't have shaved because when I when I let the whiskers grow, and I do look a little bit like a wizard at this advanced age. So really, starting off the bat really appreciated the definition of wellness, that really is equivalent to resilience. And it doesn't mean that we're always happy, I think I think lots of us just have conflicting operational definitions around around wellness and having sort of that succinct definition grant grounding the show is incredible. Maria's story is pretty incredible. She went to Stanford EP and I did not I visited a couple of times. Alright, I digress. But the left turn from mechanical engineering, but really bringing that engineering background and solution to to an edtech adjacent company and then starting playful things a very interesting and compelling personal story. Again, the clarion call being the New York Times article with suicide rates escalating and eight year olds is, you know, is something that we should all be highly concerned about. I think Maria just just absolutely nailed this, the sales conundrum for ad tech or at adjacent companies, we got to have products and services that kids like teachers will use an admin will pay for. So only three big hurdles. Just wanted to point that out to any of our big vendors, maybe listening. Acting out equals unmet needs. We know that, but it's always good to hear it again, loved this idea of a just in time tech platform, getting to a real time coach inside of 60 seconds. i The question I ask is what school couldn't benefit? I mean, what what is the harm in providing that additional layer of support in critiquing my own work lately, and summarizing, I think I've been a little remiss in time to the outlier study. So you know, what I really looked at today was, boy, this tool is a catalyst for change, and definitely something that something that challenges the status quo, which are big themes inside of the common conditions of our outlier study. My my CE brain went kind of crazy for love to be able to use our EES student SEL solution and our screener solution to see what impact does this make in schools over time, I can see control schools and all kinds of possibilities with the data. I think we could really support in the synergies great. I love what Maria had to say about it's not even necessarily relationship. I mean, it's maybe one, it's maybe one conversation over text and I really harken back to what Darren Peppard had to say in Episode 20. And know his belief that we change the world one conversation at a time. I don't even know what snap AI is, but I infer that I could finally maybe start making friends even if they're bots. I just got into chat GPT last week I'm a, I'm a little behind the curve, Maria, maybe maybe another call to help remediate some of that. I think it's slightly. It's slightly saddening, but also heartening that peak use of the solution sometimes happens around lunch. Because, you know, we know that there are kids in that lunchroom setting, seeking connection. And they may be new. But I think the more we're into this digital world, and we think about kind of the interruption for children, that was the COVID pandemic, they just may not have the tools to introduce themselves and begin to foster authentic friendships. So again, being able to reach out, you know, in a chat platform to to fill that void and getting some constructive supports from adults all make a lot of sense. I'm sure I could have covered a whole lot more ground. I think this was an incredibly powerful episode seems like such a pragmatic tool. And we'd like to give you the opportunity to fill in any gaps that you may have been listening for, as I did my best to summarize all your great thoughts.

Maria Barrera: 30:57

You really are the wizard, I am impressed.

Erich Bolz: 31:00

I just I was paying attention. I just looked like I'm not.

Eric Price: 31:03

even without even without the beard, Maria,

Maria Barrera: 31:05

even without the beard. No, I didn't say this before. But I'll just leave us with the fact that we're always firefighting. And I'm sure you're seeing this over the last four days. There's so much firefighting that goes on in schools. And really my one call to action is how can we take a step back and think about preventative solutions so that we could stop just putting out fires, and actually stop the fires from happening in the first place. And that's really what our ultimate goal, and we're here to be your partners along the way.

Eric Price: 31:36

Oh, that that is fantastic. Maria, I see huge, huge future horizons for you as an educator and as a leader, I just think that this is it really fills a bunch of needs, checks a bunch of boxes. So I think we're gonna hear a lot more from you in the future. And there's gonna be a lot of people just clamoring for your services. So thank you, Maria, for being on the show. It's really amazing. And I think you're really trying to do the right thing. Listen to kids love kids and support them. So thank you very much. It's really amazing to meet you.

Maria Barrera: 32:07

Thank you so much for having me. If you'd like

Eric Price: 32:09

to find out more about Maria and playful go to playful.co/outliers

AD VO: 32:15

and thanks to all of you for joining us today on outliers in education. You can find this episode and more anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast or visit us online@effectiveness.org. Until next time, this has been outliers and education. If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need to help drive positive change in your school or district. Take a moment to visit C E The Center for Educational effectiveness@effectiveness.org Better data, better decisions, better schools effectiveness.org